With Kelly Bennett Podcast
Identifying Your Packaging For Your Brand Ft. Kelley Kempel
Full Transcript Below
Kelly: Hi everyone. This is the first official guest podcast episode that I am recording for my newly rereleased podcast, creative direction with Kelly Bennett. And I am so excited to have my first guest. This is someone who we've connected on Instagram, and I absolutely fell in love with her right off the start. What she specializes in and what she brings to the table for creatives who are building emerging lifestyle brands, because her specialty is absolutely needed and is so impactful to make or break her brand. So Kelly Campbell, thank you so much for coming on.
Kelley: Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to be.
Kelly: Oh, perfect. So like any good interview, let's just jump into the behind the scenes of who you are and what you do.
Kelley: Sure. So, I am a graphic designer. I've been working with retail brands for almost 20 years as a graphic designer doing brand identity and packaging design. Yeah. It's been a really long time. but the interesting thing is, I spent really the first, 18, 19 years working there. For big retailers. I worked at Dick's sporting goods and I worked at Kohl's department stores doing brand identity and packaging design.
Kelly: Wow. Talk about big box national stores. Ye and mid pandemic.
Kelley: I started working with some freelance clients on the side. Absolutely loved being able to help new brands, emerging brands, people with really innovative product ideas. so last year I made the leap and went full-time into my business, working with these clients.
Kelly: Okay. So, so much to go off of there during a pandemic to launch your own business is not for the faint of hearts. So congratulations there. So are you now one year in.
Kelley: I am now one year in full time.
Kelly: Oh, well, congratulations. That's that's like that moment of getting to the one year mark for a small business. That's a super big deal. So. Wow. Congratulations. And I feel like this, I didn't even know that it was your first year. So this also now brings up another question. What helped you make that leap? Because I feel like many creatives who are going to be listening to this podcast, or maybe on the cusp of taking that leap or feel in their gut like, oh, I wish I could do this just full time. What were some things that happen behind the scenes? Maybe just a little snippet, that helped you take that leap.
Kelley: Yeah. I mean, for sure it was setting some goals and hitting them. So you know, once I started working with a couple of [00:03:00] clients and thinking like, Hey, maybe I could do this full time. I really sat down and looked at like, what would this take for me to do this full time financially? Like from a very practical standpoint. And I set a financial goal. Instead if I can hit this three months in a row, then the businesses are viable and I can support myself with. And so I did that. And when I hit that mark, which was about a year into doing it on the side, I was like, okay, I can do this full-time. And it ended about that point when I hit that financial goal, it was okay, this is a little much to be doing on the side. Like I need to kind of like really spend more time on this.
Kelly: So I love that. I love that. And I always tell people like, you'll know in your gut too, when you have to make the leap, because you have no other choice. Like if you literally have crowded out the other job that helps you get here. But like you literally, when you don't have time for your job anymore, that's always a really good indicator of going all in on your business.
Kelley: Totally agree. And that was, and that was part of it. It was like, you want to be able to have. You know, time to work, but also time to have your life outside of work. And so if you're spending that time building a business, that's about the time. So I kind of do it
Kelly: it's time to make the leap. And then also question, how did you start getting people even reaching out to you even on the side? Was it personal relationships, word of mouth, social media? Like how do people even notice start reaching out to you?
Kelley: Yeah, so it was a little bit of word of mouth, but also I joined an online freelance job board and started making connections with clients that way. found a few great clients there off the bat. One of which my first plan on that job board, still one of my clients today and, you know, has been an amazing, it's been an amazing connection and, and resource
Kelly: I love that. So you were just like, okay, there's something in me. I'm just going to start freelance. Part-time let's just kind of see where this goes. And then it added up to. Holy shit like this is happening. This is my, this is my gig. This is my thing. I'm going all in. Oh, my God, those moments I literally live for. Okay. So there's and then how did you also find your niche as far as packaging? Right, because that's a very particular niche. And when we talk about creative you know, it, careers, industries, graphic design, brand identity, it could go in many different places. So how did you find your niche in packaging?
Kelley: So that's a really interesting question. And also just. I love packaging design. Back when I was in college, I took a packaging design course and really fell in love with the idea of taking that graphic design, turning it into a three-dimensional piece, but also this idea of like packaging is one of those things that we as consumers interact with all the time, whether we realize it or not, we are making our purchasing. This is based on that people are choosing to pick something up and bring it into their homes and. That idea. So when I started my career, I went in-house at retailer so that I could work on packaging for private brands. And I spent a lot of time getting to know different types of product categories in those roles. I've designed packaging or golf balls and hunting tree stands and dishware and cookware. Shoes. And with all of that, you get to learn like different types of products. So I knew when I went on out on my own, I wanted to continue designing packaging and working with small businesses and medium size businesses that need packaging for their products, because it is, it's kind of a mystery, right? When you're developing a product, when to reach out to a packaging designer, when to work with. how do you get from, I have this idea and I need this product package to actually getting that done. And I was just seeing while I was still working in house, I was just seeing that every, every product idea it was coming from. Things that were out in the market, these new direct to consumer businesses, the new small businesses, it's never been easier to start your own product line. And so like in my mind that meant, you know, there's so many businesses. That I could be helping with this knowledge of packaging design that I've gathered over the years.
Kelly: Totally and 20 years in the business. And also, I know I told you this offline, but my dad ran a packaging facility in New York. And so I also was brought up. Really respecting packaging. Like he was always taking apart boxes showing me how it was like one of my first jobs was like working in his manufacturing plant and like looking at the blueprints of the packaging and seeing if there was any errors. So like when I realized too that your niche was packaging. I have to have you on, because I also was just raised in a home that really respected packaging. And I realized it's one of the aspects I really love about also creative direction with the brands that I work with. Be mindful of your packaging. It's part of the story, right? It's not in its own category, it's telling the whole story. So when I work with a brand, I'm working with them behind the scenes to get clarity on what the brand actually is. So then when they're ready for that next step to get packaging done, they have the insight of what they're looking for and then work with an expert like yourself to then bring that piece of the brand to life.
Kelley: Right. And that's so important to know what your brand is and know what you're communicating before you start on your packaging design, because you want those things to shine through. You want yeah. You want your customers when they see that package to feel. You know what your brand is all about before they even like consciously recognize it, those graphics on the package, the choices of materials, even the choice of package type is all going to show that through it all.
Kelly: tells a story. It all tells a story. So that brings me to my next question. I feel like, again, for the creatives listening to this podcast, they're probably in the beginning stages, the early years of developing their lifestyle brand. And that's the niche of brands that I work with. So anything in the lifestyle space what are the key elements when you maybe more so towards like when you were designing, like the cookware or even like the fashion and anything like that? What are some key elements to packaging that we should be mindful when working on that next step to really invest in proper packaging for a product, what are some key things that really helps, especially being an emerging brand or a new brand to stand out from the beginning or to do things maybe don't take so long doing X, Y, and Z, maybe focus here instead so that you can have it more refined, right from the beginning.
Kelley: Totally. Totally. And I think, you know, your packaging is going to last a little longer because it is printed. It's a produced media. It's not, it's not your website. You can't go, you can't go in and tweak it tomorrow to show up, you know, in three days.
Kelly: That's a really good point.
Kelley: It is a little bit of an investment upfront, not just in money, but in time and being strategic, but starting with knowing your brand and what you want to get across with your brand. One of the first things I like to talk about it. What's the identity of your brand and how is that going to come through? So you have a strong logo. Let's make sure we include that. What's your color palette look like? How does your color look either on the shelf or on screen? Because packaging is just as important. If you're selling a product online as if you're selling it in the store, even though that seems kind of counter-intuitive.
Kelly: That's a really good point.
Kelley: And you know, for some brands, when you think about it, I've been working with quite a few skincare brands that product doesn't exist outside of its primary package.
So the form that you choose, the color that you choose for that form and for the graphics that go on it are really important because you're going to have lots of photographs or lots of renders on that, on your. Website on your social media on any sort of wholesale website that you are including. So make sure that you have those visual assets that translate really well and are recognizable. I love color because color is one of the most memorable and eye-catching elements you can use on a package. And You know, what I, what I always love to do is I love to see, like, what are the competitors out there and what are they doing? You know, if everybody in your space has a white label with black tight you may want to pick up something familiar, like white, black, that. Even if you invert it you're automatically gonna stand out. I literally
Kelly: I literally am so happy you just said that. I literally just got off of a call with a creative building and emerging lifestyle brand. And In that was my biggest thing with her because she's in a category that has a certain look. And I said, what if you flip. 'cause I feel like if you flip it, it will give it more of an artisanal vibe and also make you stand out and then becomes a part of like, it looks like a piece of art versus what everyone else is doing.
I literally, okay. Well good. Now I feel even better about the advice I just gave that was literally. Switch it everyone's doing it this way. Switch it. That is so perfect. So I love everything you just said. And again, as someone who loves and respects packaging, I love your take and I can genuinely feel your passion for it. I feel like it's so important, especially when you're a small business owner, you know, and you're in the beginning stages and you're investing your time, money, energy, resources. You want to work with people who you genuinely can feel that they want to also be a part of your journey and that they really truly care about this thing that you probably made and created. And it's years in the making and now you're ready to package it. Like that's, that's such a big moment, right? Oh, totally. Totally. I love that. You're so passionate about it because I feel like your clients also could feel that, that you genuinely love what they're doing as well, and you want it to have the best packaging so that it can convey, right. It can find the right people, it can grow and do its thing because it's put in the best way possible for people to understand what it is.
Kelley: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Like your packaging is the thing that's going to speak for your product when you're not there. And so that really has to come through. And I, you know, I think it's so interesting because like, when I, when I meet with people that are starting product brands, there's always some sort of a story behind it. Whether it's like a personal story about a void that they saw on the market, or, you know, a family connection or just something that they feel really strongly about. And. Like, I love being able to see that and then turning it into a visual that shows that because it's really easy to get caught up in. I made this with the most high quality ingredients and it's XYZ size or XYZ material. And, you know, customers want to know those things when they're comparison shopping. Most people make really emotional decisions when they're shopping, even if they don't realize it. Yeah. So you want that emotion of the Y to come through and that's not all. Like a bullet point of text, you know, sometimes that is a couple icons on the front of your package for a creation of a quality seal. It's kind of amazing to me. Like, you know, you can create one of my clients August summer in row their product. Unique blemish camouflage. It treats and conceals, and we created this quality field. It's like a three and one that speaks to what it is. And it, you know, it just looks like somebody stamped it on there to make, to make the package official and something like that. Just kind of like heightened cache elevates guests. Kelly: I love it. I love it. Yeah. So when does someone come to you? So say that it's someone who's a maker? I think skincare is a great example. I work with a few skincare companies as well. They're starting to make it, they're getting the word out. Maybe they. You know, making it work with packaging to just get it up and running or they're waiting to get it really packaged, but they have a great product. When does someone connect with you? What, what is a good threshold for be like, okay, now I'm ready to take this next step on packaging.
Kelley: Yeah. So. There are a few really great times to connect with myself or another packaging designer. You know, if you're, if you're just starting out and you are, you know, you're creating your product I would say. One of the best times to connect with a packaging designer is before you're ready to package the product. Meaning if you're working with a manufacturer, particularly if you're in a, you know, a skincare or you're making some decor items like candles or things like that, you actually want to connect with a packaging designer before your manufacturer is ready to produce. And part of that reason is, is because you want to have your packaging produced so that as the product is coming off the line. It's getting packaged in your branded packaging.
Kelly: Totally makes sense.
Kelley: Now, if you know, you've done a, you've done a DIY round, you've done the packaging yourself. You're, you're a maker you know, a good time to update your packaging and work with a packaging designer is if you're looking to make a change, if you're looking to add something to your line, If you are looking to maybe branch out and target a new market, say you've been selling it, selling at fairs and makers markets and to some small boutiques, but you're maybe getting ready to make that leap to start listing your product on fare or on another wholesale website. Okay. Great time. Because as you start to get on to more of those wholesale platforms, you're going to want to highlight your packaging and that is going to be important too. More boutiques as they purchase your product, because
Kelly: That's one piece of information they're going to want to see that your packaging looks really great.
Kelley: They're going to want to see if the packaging fits in with their current aesthetic within their boutique. They're gonna want to know, can your packaging help to sell your product? And if it can, they're going to be more likely to purchase your product.
Kelly: That is perfect. That's perfect because that's very identifiable when you're ready to really go down that wholesale and it totally makes sense to do it. Then what you're saying is like from a curator's point of view, wanting to make sure that it all is cohesive. Like you said, it will sell by itself because I've seen that loop of like, well, if I'm not with my product, it's not selling. And so, you know, when someone's used to making our markets, but then they're in a store and it's not moving as much. That's a great pain point of identifying the packaging. Definitely has something to do with it. What can you do moving forward to get into more stores, but investing in packaging to help bring this all together so that you don't have to be in front of it in order for people to understand it and want to buy it?
Kelley: Yeah. Totally totally. And I do have a client. It's a soap client and they're mainly a wholesale business to get small boutiques. And that's the feedback that they've gotten from their buyers is that their packaging is really clear. It's easy to understand. You know, we did a really beautiful kind of color block story with a monogram logo and then, you know, speaking to their ingredients on the front and because of that, you know, the buyers totally. Hey, your packaging is really easy to understand. I can put 4 cents of your bar soap out on the floor and it's eye-catching to customers and they get it right away. So that's why they, that's why they were picked up in their boutiques.
Kelly: What a great case study also. Yeah. Incredible. I love that. I love, I love real, tangible examples of other small businesses and the little things that they did, or the little bit of mindfulness that they brought into certain elements of growing their brand and how it really helped impact the bigger picture of what they were building. And that's a great example.
Kelley: That's a great example.
Kelly: Yeah. I love it. So anyone listening they're like, okay, now I'm really into packaging. I get it. I'm excited. I'm looking at my current packaging and I want to give it a judge or an still in the beginning stages. I haven't gotten to packaging yet. How does someone connect with you? How does someone reach out to you? What does that path look like to work with you?
Kelley: Sure. So there are a couple of ways that somebody can work with me. So my website is hidden path, creative.com. And one of the things I just launched is a really cool, it's a combination of a course and toolkit for makers and small businesses. It's called the Packaging Field Guide and it includes. It includes a workbook that helps guide somebody through creating their packaging strategy. There's a timeline toolkit for when's the best time to start sourcing your packaging. When's the best time to work with a designer. And then there is also a curated packaging, supplier directory included as well as a quote sheet with an analysis tool.
Kelly: How incredible is that? I didn't even know you had that. That is so cool. That's perfect.
Kelley: Yeah. I'm just ramping up to launch it right now and it's available, but I'm just starting to talk about it and get it in front of people.
Kelly: I'm glad we have the breaking news here. This is so exciting. That's perfect. Okay, amazing. So if you're first starting out. If you're figuring out what does this look like for you? What is the path ahead? I love helping people understand the roadmap and the steps ahead. So that sounds fantastic for someone to understand, okay, this is what it will look like for my packaging. And this is what I need to be mindful of. So we have that. And then if someone likes it, I'm ready. Just here. Take it. What does that look like?
Kelley: That looks like, jump on the website, fill out the contact form and we start off with an introductory call. I get to know what you're looking for with your packaging update.
And then I customize packages based on what my clients really need. So some clients, I work with them and we do their packaging graphics. Some clients, we update their branding and then do their packaging graphics. Others, I do more of a high touch where I'm working with the suppliers on their behalf and doing the packaging design. So depending on what the clients need, I really, I customize it based on, their comfort level and. You know what, what's going to help them the most to, turn their ideas and their passion into a package design of the NFL, their product.
Kelly: Incredible. And I love the spectrum too, of when someone's stressed, starting out to then being able to work with suppliers and really getting to the idea of wrapping their minds around manufacturing, right? Like that next level of growth that you're able to have services. Helps with those different touch points while someone's building, which is really cool.
Kelley: Yeah, it is. It is. You know, I think different brands need different things. And I think it's really easy to kind of go down the line of like, I'm only gonna do it this way, but you know, I've seen enough to understand that different, different types of packaging need different support. I'm working with a jewelry brand right now where you know, in that case I'm helping with the print collateral and the unboxing, but then I did more consulting with them in terms of the packaging design. Because when you look at something like a setup box for jewelry or a watch You kind of have to work with a supplier to build it and, you know, source materials that they have. And through those, I'm thinking more like you think of that beautiful ranch jewelry box, you know, you, you get a ring and it hinges open and it's a fabric on the outside or fabric on the inside and beautiful stamp logo. And, you know, I can, I can design the shape and the size. But that's something where you work with a supplier and also get some information from them in terms of what they have available? Because that unique box that I designed, Mike. Three times as much as what they have available, but then I can customize the colors I can customize where the graphics are going, customize the materials based on things that they have available. Maybe a way to explain it is almost like, think about when you go shopping for a couch, you might, you go into the showroom, you pick up the style and then they go, oh wait, we've got hundreds of fabrics that you can put on this couch.
So for those more specialty packages, In that jewelry watch area. It's the same kind of idea. Like they've got a box available and then they've got hundreds of papers and fabrics that you can wrap the box and, and it's, it looks completely custom. It's not as much about designing the graphics that go on at dine, it's guiding through that process of how do we pick the right pieces for this?
Kelly: I love it. I love the art to it as well. Yeah, it's really cool. Well, thank you so much for sharing all of your insight and really helping someone I feel understand what is the trajectory. Here's the next paths to just starting out to, again, working with a supplier or, you know, moving to that next level of growing their brands. So thank you for breaking that down. I personally learned so much and I know so many people will find this super helpful and I appreciate you so much.
Kelley: Oh, thank you. And thank you so much for having me. This has been here. Welcome. It's been a really enjoyable conversation.
Kelly: I could talk about this all day, so thank you again.Yes. I get to tell you're so passionate. I love when people are passionate about what they do. And one more time, how can people find you?
Kelley: Yeah so, I’m on instagram @hiddenpathcreative and my website is hiddenpathcreative.com. So yeah, check it out. I've got you know, tons of work and tips. And then I've got a blog with plenty of packaging resources on the website. So I love it.
Kelly: Thank you so much, Kelly. I appreciate you.
Kelley: Thank you, Kelly.